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    <p>Hello,</p>
    <p>Regarding longer prefix propagation ...an obvious case is this: <br>
    </p>
    <p>As IPv4 space has been exhausted, we in GRNET, tend to assign
      even longer prefixes to our members [aka customers] ( /26,/27...up
      to /29). When multi-homing is desired by the member then the other
      SP should propagate longer prefixes to its upstream in order to
      service the member. In our turn we need to de-aggregate the same
      long, part of our supernet, prefix and advertise it to our
      upstreams in order to let the customer to choose the desired
      path.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>We've exchanged few mails about that in the list, some time ago. 
      Of course there are other variations to this scenario. <br>
    </p>
    <p>If you like, we could organize a more detailed discussion about
      this topic during our next GRNOG technical meeting.</p>
    <p>Regards</p>
    <p>Tasos<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/07/2018 09:07 πμ, Nikos
      Leontsinis wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE6y_uRc0doDzkq-ZLBAysBHn1i45x7YUDe97fhnzJtSCz2Z3w@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EL">Παρακολουθησα την ημεριδα απο το<span> </span></span>ipad<span
            lang="EL">.<span> <span> </span></span>Χαιρετιζω την
            προσπαθεια και συγχαρητηρια σε ολους<span> <span> </span></span>τους
            συντελεστες.<span></span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EL">Ισως οι<span> </span></span>vendors<span lang="EL"><span> </span>θα
            μπορουσαν να συμμετεχουν και να υπστηριζουν εδω.<span></span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EL"><span> </span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            style="font-size:11pt">A few comments about the security
            discussion:</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Let’s
            just say rfc 7454 is a good place to start.</span>
          <br>
        </p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
        <ol start="1"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
          type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><i>The
              RIPE community has documented that:<span> <span> </span></span>IPv4<span> <span> </span></span>prefixes
              longer than /24 and IPv6 prefixes longer than /48 are<span></span></i></li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><i><span>  <span> </span></span>generally
            neither announced nor accepted in the Internet</i><span> </span>and
          there is a best practice rfc supporting that view too:<span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            class="gmail-MsoHyperlink"
            style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline"><a
              href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7454"
              style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7454</a></span><span> </span>which
          by the way also mentions the ttl security feature mentioned
          (of course the<span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">approach
          is applicable for the igp too but this is another discussion.)<span> </span><span
            lang="EN-GB"><span> </span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
        </p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Further
          to that, it would be interesting to explore the opposite view<span> <span> </span></span>i.e
          why someone would be willing to start propagating<span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span>/25s
          and /26s? I don’t see a reason but there might be merits to
          that view.<span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE6y_uRc0doDzkq-ZLBAysBHn1i45x7YUDe97fhnzJtSCz2Z3w@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <ol start="2"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
          type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Bogon
            Ass should be filtered too:<span></span></li>
        </ol>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EN-GB"><span> </span></span></p>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EN-GB">0<span></span></span></p>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EN-GB">23456<span></span></span></p>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EN-GB">64496 – 131071<span></span></span></p>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EN-GB">4200000000 – 4294967295<span></span></span></p>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
            lang="EN-GB">RFC5398, RFC6996, RFC7300<span></span></span></p>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
        <ol start="3"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
          type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">We
            don’t do full automation and we will never do simply because
            automation is not compatible with flexibility. The network
            is more complex than an application.<span></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The
            idea to write 250K lines of a prefix-list<span> <span> </span></span>is
            not rational. Simply doesn’t scale.<span></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">There
            are no customer obligations there are obligations of any
            internet citizen as stipulated by RIPE.<span></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The
            idea to outsource<span> <span> </span></span>filtering<span> <span> </span></span>to
            the provider is a pragmatic one<span> <span> </span></span>and<span> <span> </span></span>can
            be part of the managed services portfolio<span> <span> </span></span>offered
            for many years. The brave new world promises to lower<span></span></li>
        </ol>
        <p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
          0in 0.0001pt
          0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">barriers
          to market entry,<span> <span> </span></span>empowering the
          provider with<span> <span> </span></span>all these tasks.<span></span></p>
        <ol start="7"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
          type="1">
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">How
            many of you have supported/adopted rfc 7999 wouldn’t that
            make internet a better place?<span></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
            0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Also
            another aspect not mentioned but important is to encourage
            the use of public but non publicly routable address space in
            the interconnections.<span></span></li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Regards,</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span><br>
          </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">/nikos</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span><br>
          </span></p>
        <br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">2018-07-11 0:37 GMT+01:00 Andreas
            Polyrakis <span dir="ltr"><<a
                href="mailto:apolyr@noc.grnet.gr" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">apolyr@noc.grnet.gr</a>></span>:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                <p>Καλησπέρα,</p>
                <p>Στον απόηχο ενός πολύ πετυχημένου GRNOG7*, θα θέλαμε
                  να σας ενημερώσουμε πως στη <a
                    href="https://www.grnog.gr/7th-meeting/"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">σελίδα της
                    διοργάνωσης</a> έχουν αναρτηθεί οι παρουσιάσεις, το
                  βίντεο, φωτογραφίες και γενικότερα το υλικό της
                  συνάντησης.<br>
                </p>
                <p>Θυμίζουμε πως η <a
                    href="https://goo.gl/forms/0Q9Xcgnk060EG8Lz2"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">αξιολόγησή</a>
                  σας είναι σημαντική για την διατήρηση του υψηλού
                  επιπέδου της διοργάνωσης. Το link θα παραμείνει ενεργό
                  για λίγες ημέρες ακόμα.<br>
                </p>
                <p>Και πάλι σας ευχαριστούμε θερμά για την ενεργή
                  συμμετοχή σας!<br>
                </p>
                <p>Η επιτροπή του GRNOG,<br>
                  Κώστας Ζορμπαδέλος<br>
                  Μιχάλης Μπερσίμης<br>
                  Μιχάλης Οικονομάκος<br>
                  Ανδρέας Πολυράκης</p>
                <p>* 111 εγγραφές, 11+2 παρουσιάσεις, ένα panel, με 3
                  ομιλητές να ταξιδεύουν επί τούτου από το εξωτερικό και
                  ένας από άλλη πόλη της Ελλάδας, live streaming &
                  recording -- και όλα αυτά σε ένα υπέρχο χώρο!<span
                    class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
                    </font></span></p>
                <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
                    <p><br>
                    </p>
                    <pre cols="72">-- 
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----------
Andreas Polyrakis - <a href="mailto:apolyr@noc.grnet.gr" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">apolyr@noc.grnet.gr</a>
GRNET NOC Technical Manager
Greek Research & Technology Network - <a href="http://www.grnet.gr" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.grnet.gr</a>
<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=7,+Kifisias+Av.,+Ampelokipi,+11523+Athens,+Greece&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">7, Kifisias Av., Ampelokipi, 11523 Athens, Greece</a>
Mobile: +30 6972832445    Office: +30 2107474249   Fax: +30 2107474490
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----------
</pre>
                  </font></span></div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tasos Karaliotas - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:karaliot@noc.grnet.gr">karaliot@noc.grnet.gr</a>
Greek Research&  Technology Network - <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.grnet.gr">http://www.grnet.gr</a>, 
7, Kifisias  Av., Ampelokipi, 11523 Athens, Greece
Office: +302107471097 Fax: +302107474490
--------------------------------------------------------------- </pre>
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