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καλησπερα,<br>
<br>
a few comments inline<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/13/2018 12:15 PM, Tasos
Karaliotas wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b7c45fd6-01b8-4c90-50ec-aa7d02e34814@noc.grnet.gr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>Regarding longer prefix propagation ...an obvious case is this:
<br>
</p>
<p>As IPv4 space has been exhausted, we in GRNET, tend to assign
even longer prefixes to our members [aka customers] (
/26,/27...up to /29). When multi-homing is desired by the member
then the other SP should propagate longer prefixes to its
upstream in order to service the member. In our turn we need to
de-aggregate the same long, part of our supernet, prefix and
advertise it to our upstreams in order to let the customer to
choose the desired path. <br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
+1<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b7c45fd6-01b8-4c90-50ec-aa7d02e34814@noc.grnet.gr">
<p> </p>
<p>We've exchanged few mails about that in the list, some time
ago. Of course there are other variations to this scenario. <br>
</p>
<p>If you like, we could organize a more detailed discussion about
this topic during our next GRNOG technical meeting.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Tasos<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/07/2018 09:07 πμ, Nikos
Leontsinis wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE6y_uRc0doDzkq-ZLBAysBHn1i45x7YUDe97fhnzJtSCz2Z3w@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EL">Παρακολουθησα την ημεριδα απο το<span> </span></span>ipad<span
lang="EL">.<span> <span> </span></span>Χαιρετιζω την
προσπαθεια και συγχαρητηρια σε ολους<span> <span> </span></span>τους
συντελεστες.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EL">Ισως οι<span> </span></span>vendors<span
lang="EL"><span> </span>θα μπορουσαν να συμμετεχουν και να
υπστηριζουν εδω.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EL"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt">A few comments about the security
discussion:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Let’s
just say rfc 7454 is a good place to start.</span> <br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<ol start="1"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><i>The
RIPE community has documented that:<span> <span> </span></span>IPv4<span> <span> </span></span>prefixes
longer than /24 and IPv6 prefixes longer than /48 are<span></span></i></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><i><span> <span> </span></span>generally
neither announced nor accepted in the Internet</i><span> </span>and
there is a best practice rfc supporting that view too:<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
class="gmail-MsoHyperlink"
style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline"><a
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7454"
style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7454</a></span><span> </span>which
by the way also mentions the ttl security feature mentioned
(of course the<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">approach
is applicable for the igp too but this is another
discussion.)<span> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
and then goes to say "These values may change in the future" as they
probably will, since our needs seem to change ever so often. BCPs
have always been driven by operators and operational experience. The
whole argument here is two-fold:<br>
<ul>
<li>until the IPv4 extinction and while IPv4 is a scarce resource,
people may need to announce larger prefixes simply because they
cannot be assigned shorter ones</li>
<li>for IPv6, the /48 boundary is a bit arbitrary and once we gain
adequate operational experience, we might end up replacing it
with a longer one, simply because its wasteful (see also /127
for p2p links instead of /64, /62 for residential customers
instead of /56 etc.). Our experience as an operator/ISP, shows
just that and it seems that other operators share the same
experience </li>
</ul>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b7c45fd6-01b8-4c90-50ec-aa7d02e34814@noc.grnet.gr">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE6y_uRc0doDzkq-ZLBAysBHn1i45x7YUDe97fhnzJtSCz2Z3w@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Further
to that, it would be interesting to explore the opposite
view<span> <span> </span></span>i.e why someone would be
willing to start propagating<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span>/25s
and /26s? I don’t see a reason but there might be merits to
that view.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE6y_uRc0doDzkq-ZLBAysBHn1i45x7YUDe97fhnzJtSCz2Z3w@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<ol start="2"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Bogon
Ass should be filtered too:<span></span></li>
</ol>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EN-GB"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EN-GB">0<span></span></span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EN-GB">23456<span></span></span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EN-GB">64496 – 131071<span></span></span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EN-GB">4200000000 – 4294967295<span></span></span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
lang="EN-GB">RFC5398, RFC6996, RFC7300<span></span></span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<ol start="3"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">We
don’t do full automation and we will never do simply
because automation is not compatible with flexibility. The
network is more complex than an application.</li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
It's not really a matter of complexity (or it shouldn't be).
Automation+decision_making is not so futuristic anymore ;) .
Machines apparently do learn...<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b7c45fd6-01b8-4c90-50ec-aa7d02e34814@noc.grnet.gr">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE6y_uRc0doDzkq-ZLBAysBHn1i45x7YUDe97fhnzJtSCz2Z3w@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<ol start="3"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The
idea to write 250K lines of a prefix-list<span> <span> </span></span>is
not rational. Simply doesn’t scale.<span></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">There
are no customer obligations there are obligations of any
internet citizen as stipulated by RIPE.<span></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The
idea to outsource<span> <span> </span></span>filtering<span> <span> </span></span>to
the provider is a pragmatic one<span> <span> </span></span>and<span> <span> </span></span>can
be part of the managed services portfolio<span> <span> </span></span>offered
for many years. The brave new world promises to lower<span></span></li>
</ol>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph"
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0in
0in 0.0001pt
0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">barriers
to market entry,<span> <span> </span></span>empowering the
provider with<span> <span> </span></span>all these tasks.<span></span></p>
<ol start="7"
style="font-size:small;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in"
type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">How
many of you have supported/adopted rfc 7999 wouldn’t that
make internet a better place?<span></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Also
another aspect not mentioned but important is to encourage
the use of public but non publicly routable address space
in the interconnections.<span></span></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span>Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">/nikos</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span><br>
</span></p>
<br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2018-07-11 0:37 GMT+01:00 Andreas
Polyrakis <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:apolyr@noc.grnet.gr" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">apolyr@noc.grnet.gr</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Καλησπέρα,</p>
<p>Στον απόηχο ενός πολύ πετυχημένου GRNOG7*, θα
θέλαμε να σας ενημερώσουμε πως στη <a
href="https://www.grnog.gr/7th-meeting/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">σελίδα της
διοργάνωσης</a> έχουν αναρτηθεί οι παρουσιάσεις,
το βίντεο, φωτογραφίες και γενικότερα το υλικό της
συνάντησης.<br>
</p>
<p>Θυμίζουμε πως η <a
href="https://goo.gl/forms/0Q9Xcgnk060EG8Lz2"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">αξιολόγησή</a>
σας είναι σημαντική για την διατήρηση του υψηλού
επιπέδου της διοργάνωσης. Το link θα παραμείνει
ενεργό για λίγες ημέρες ακόμα.<br>
</p>
<p>Και πάλι σας ευχαριστούμε θερμά για την ενεργή
συμμετοχή σας!<br>
</p>
<p>Η επιτροπή του GRNOG,<br>
Κώστας Ζορμπαδέλος<br>
Μιχάλης Μπερσίμης<br>
Μιχάλης Οικονομάκος<br>
Ανδρέας Πολυράκης</p>
<p>* 111 εγγραφές, 11+2 παρουσιάσεις, ένα panel, με 3
ομιλητές να ταξιδεύουν επί τούτου από το εξωτερικό
και ένας από άλλη πόλη της Ελλάδας, live streaming
& recording -- και όλα αυτά σε ένα υπέρχο χώρο!<span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p><br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">--
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----------
Andreas Polyrakis - <a href="mailto:apolyr@noc.grnet.gr" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">apolyr@noc.grnet.gr</a>
GRNET NOC Technical Manager
Greek Research & Technology Network - <a href="http://www.grnet.gr" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.grnet.gr</a>
<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=7,+Kifisias+Av.,+Ampelokipi,+11523+Athens,+Greece&entry=gmail&source=g" moz-do-not-send="true">7, Kifisias Av., Ampelokipi, 11523 Athens, Greece</a>
Mobile: +30 6972832445 Office: +30 2107474249 Fax: +30 2107474490
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----------
</pre>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tasos Karaliotas - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:karaliot@noc.grnet.gr" moz-do-not-send="true">karaliot@noc.grnet.gr</a>
Greek Research& Technology Network - <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.grnet.gr" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.grnet.gr</a>,
7, Kifisias Av., Ampelokipi, 11523 Athens, Greece
Office: +302107471097 Fax: +302107474490
--------------------------------------------------------------- </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Yannis Nikolopoulos OTE S.A
e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yanodd@otenet.gr">yanodd@otenet.gr</a> IP Network Planning & Engineering
tel: +302106116293
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